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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all,

My charging system on my "new" Avon is foo-bared. I am having to replace everything.

However, the alternator wiring is giving me a headache when trying to swap my Lucas LRA101 for a lightweight Nippon Denso 2 pin alternator from Burton Power/Retro Ford/Car Builder Solutions on my Avon 2.0 black top zetec.

I have read over 100 articles looking for info but contradictory information has been discovered.

Has anyone done the exact same swap?


Current setup is:
battery positive to FIA kill switch to starter motor solenoid to Lucas alternator. There are two wires joined together to the large spade on the alternator (both Brown).  The small spade is BrownYellow (which I think is the cockpit warning light).

Future setup is:
My new lightweight Nippon Denso type alternator has 2 pins (both small spade, IG and one unlabeled).  It also has a M6 bolt labelled "B".

What I think I need to do is:
1. Connect the existing BrownYellow wire to the unlabeled male spade (what should be labelled as L, for lamp).
2. Connect the "B" bolt direct to the battery - will need a new wire and route it through engine bay.  But then why didn't the old alternator have a direct wire to battery, as it comes from the starter right now?
3. Connect the two Brown wires to the IG (hoping this is a switched live, but it comes from the starter motor solenoid).  There is a WhiteRed wire coming from the starter solenoid but it either never arrives at the alternator or changes colour to Brown.

Thanks in advance in anyone can help, I just need this one job completing then I am road-worthy,

Carl
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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #2 
This is the alternator kit I bought: http://www.burtonpower.com/alternator-kit-40amp-ford-zetec-e-black-top-05-98-st170-altkitzb.html

The brackets are very pretty and sturdy, but no instructions and missing several bolts in the fitting kit (Wickes saved the day).
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althecate1

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Reply with quote  #3 

Not sure if this picture helps or not. It shows the feed to the starter motor via the alternator. I used this to fit mine. You need a live switched feed.
Alec

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althecate1

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Reply with quote  #4 
Well I cocked that up I meant to say battery via the starter motor.
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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks althecate1.

So IG is ignition lamp, and L is switched live.  TBA - too many abbreviations [smile]
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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #6 
Brise use L for light, and IG for switched ignition: http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/gallery/alternator%20connections.jpg


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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #7 
Alternators for geeks.  Formula Ford Zetec racing series info about sin waves, rotors, diodes, general wiring diagram (no warning light), and pictures.
http://www.formulafordzetec.co.uk/linked/alternator%20charging%20systems.pdf
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snoble80

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Reply with quote  #8 
The brown wire is the power from the alternator. This would be the M6 connection.
White/red is ignition switched to start the starter
There is a small wire on the current alternator plug which is the battery warning light.

The red from the battery goes to the starter as well as the brown. I'm not 100% sure about the FIA switch, but assume that goes between the battery and starter in the red wire.



Simon
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warthog

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Reply with quote  #9 
When I fitted a Denso to my R6 the connections went like this;

(IG) connected to  IGN 12v from ignition switch - you may need to add this wire as the old Lucas alternator won't have this supply

(L) connected to ignition light

Brown (12v to battery/starter motor) connected to stud

The 'P' terminal if there is one is a voltage sense connection which can be run direct to the battery to give better indication of battery voltage to the alternator, but it works fine without.

Good luck

Tony

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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks Simon and Tony.

Brise were helpful too on the phone.  I even found a diagram with the wiring explained including wire thickness.
Look at the detailed images on http://www.brise.co.uk/Denso-5021.html

I ended up ripping out the existing wiring loom for the charging system.  Was completely bodged.  I am building it myself from scratch.
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carlcarkit

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Reply with quote  #11 
The beast is fixed.  I took it for a drive yesterday (bit chilly at 5 centigrade) but everything worked.

Managed to get a switched live from under the dash. 
I will post up a wiring diagram of what i have done with all of the wire specs, terminal sizes etc when i have a moment.

Thanks for everyone's help.
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mat23uk

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hi Carl. I've recently acquired a Tiger Avon which is having charging issues. Closer inspection of the alternator makes me think it is the same as you are discussing here although and i cant conform it is a Denso. The electrical connections are as you describe. Everything is telling me the alternator is goosed as i get no voltage increase when the engine is running (or revved) but i want to make sure the wiring is as it should be. Your last post mentioned you would provide a wiring diagram, any chance you could post one? 

many thanks
Matt

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snoble80

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hi,
Do you have a battery light on the dashboard?
Does this come on when you turn the ignition on? If you have the light but it doesn’t illuminate then it could be the bulb causing the issue. Check the bulb/wiring.
The alternator will not turn on without this working.

Simon
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mat23uk

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks for replying Simon. Only the +12V from the ignition and the main cable to the battery / starter are connected from what i can tell. The terminal that im assuming is for the lamp has nothing connected to it. The previous owner has mentioned they always put the battery on to a trickle charger when not in use so may of been none the wiser???? I'm trying to get my head round it bit by bit. Ill try rigging something up tonight. Do you know how the lamp should be wired, obvs one side to alternator terminal but other side to + or -?

thanks again.

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snoble80

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Reply with quote  #15 
Ignition/battery positive to lamp to alternator. When engine starts this circuit ignites the alternator. Won’t do it without lamp.
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overdriver

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Reply with quote  #16 
I suspected a weak battery a couple of weeks ago. However, on checking voltage with engine running there was little increase - c. 12.8V although the ignition light was going out. I noticed that the plug to the alternator (Hella/Lucas CA17, replaced last year) appeared loose. Cleaning and tightening pin contacts and modifying the retaining clip solved the problem. Voltage now 14+V with engine running.

May or may not be relevant but worth checking anyway.

Michael.

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